according to tankies from .ml, cuba is a socialist workers paradise where everything goes well all the time, no one is unhappy, and they have complete and utter democratic freedom, and fidel did nothing wrong.
according to tankies from .ml, cuba is a socialist workers
Yes
paradise where everything goes well all the time, no one is unhappy
Obviously not, and this is just bad faith. Not even the tankiest tankie would argue this, and it also deflects from the causes of why things are bad in Cuba (hint: it’s got a lot more to do with their neighbour than anything they’re doing)
complete and utter democratic freedom
Complicated, I’d also say no, but this kind of statement is meant to imply that it’s some kind of totalitarian nightmare, which is ridiculous since it’s a massive improvement on the regime before it and also pretty easy to argue more democratic than, again, the country that this criticism is being made from.
If you have genuine arguments about why things in Cuba are bad, why not make those instead of the flimsiest possible strawman?
Idk, I’m not gonna read the whole discussion very carefully so maybe I’m missing something, but I’m not sure why you think that having multiple political parties is identical to being democratic? To me democracy is about how individuals can actually have a say in a decision making process, and about how the will of the people is expressed in government policy and the law. I don’t see any reason why electing representatives within a party is necessarily any less democratic than having multiple parties.
Given the numerous studies that show how badly the policies of, really any western country except maybe a few tiny social democratic ones, actually reflect what people want (and even the nordics aren’t doing so hot on that front the last few years) I don’t really see how we can feel so superior about anything really.
I know very little about North Korea so I’m not willing to make any claims about it either way. I can tell you I don’t believe that western media or organisations will ever give accurate information about it, so I don’t buy many of the stories you hear. I’m also not saying that does make it democratic. We were talking about Cuba though.
In the interest of getting on the same page therefore, do you think people in the USA/Anglosphere or Europe are in free, functioning democracies?
I can tell you I don’t believe that western media or organisations will ever give accurate information about it, so I don’t buy many of the stories you hear.
what about independent journalists that go there and are restricted from gathering information?
In the interest of getting on the same page therefore, do you think people in the USA/Anglosphere or Europe are in free, functioning democracies?
The people in those places live in places that have had their mechanisms examined and reported on by outside parties, and are seen in various reports and rankings. This similar lack of transparancy in NK is what gives weight to the reports of oppression.
However, the .mlites seem to paint cuba, NK etc with the same “everything is fine here” brush, and I am sick of it.
Both sets of places can have their faults; but I am not the one denying obvious things that have been reported on time and time again.
I just don’t find the argument that an (in all likelihood American or British) almost certainly anti-communist organisation writing a report about their political enemy proves anything about their level of democracy or lack thereof very compelling. Especially if those same organisations rate a system in which ordinary people have almost zero influence as being somehow more democratic. Again, I’m not saying those countries are perfectly democratic. But in my opinion these reports are pretty much worthless. Agree to disagree I guess.
But in my opinion these reports are pretty much worthless
the reports of random people that go on holiday to north korea and are forbidden to take pictures of anything not in the potempkin village set up for them are worthless?
![[CW systemic bigotry] the "no u gay" rule](https://media.piefed.social/posts/Le/ta/LetaXiTxRudBzGN.png){kind=link}
according to tankies from .ml, cuba is a socialist workers paradise where everything goes well all the time, no one is unhappy, and they have complete and utter democratic freedom, and fidel did nothing wrong.
not sure I believe it.
OK yeah but the user just asked if Cuba is improving LGBTQ+ rights (Sounds like they very much have).
Yes
Obviously not, and this is just bad faith. Not even the tankiest tankie would argue this, and it also deflects from the causes of why things are bad in Cuba (hint: it’s got a lot more to do with their neighbour than anything they’re doing)
Complicated, I’d also say no, but this kind of statement is meant to imply that it’s some kind of totalitarian nightmare, which is ridiculous since it’s a massive improvement on the regime before it and also pretty easy to argue more democratic than, again, the country that this criticism is being made from.
If you have genuine arguments about why things in Cuba are bad, why not make those instead of the flimsiest possible strawman?
Lemmygrad would like a word
Because they are out there posting shit like “one party authoritarian states are democratic”
https://lemmy.world/post/43596603/22356729
Idk, I’m not gonna read the whole discussion very carefully so maybe I’m missing something, but I’m not sure why you think that having multiple political parties is identical to being democratic? To me democracy is about how individuals can actually have a say in a decision making process, and about how the will of the people is expressed in government policy and the law. I don’t see any reason why electing representatives within a party is necessarily any less democratic than having multiple parties.
Given the numerous studies that show how badly the policies of, really any western country except maybe a few tiny social democratic ones, actually reflect what people want (and even the nordics aren’t doing so hot on that front the last few years) I don’t really see how we can feel so superior about anything really.
ok, let’s get on the same page
Do you think people in North Korea are in a free, functioning democracy?
I know very little about North Korea so I’m not willing to make any claims about it either way. I can tell you I don’t believe that western media or organisations will ever give accurate information about it, so I don’t buy many of the stories you hear. I’m also not saying that does make it democratic. We were talking about Cuba though.
In the interest of getting on the same page therefore, do you think people in the USA/Anglosphere or Europe are in free, functioning democracies?
what about independent journalists that go there and are restricted from gathering information?
The people in those places live in places that have had their mechanisms examined and reported on by outside parties, and are seen in various reports and rankings. This similar lack of transparancy in NK is what gives weight to the reports of oppression.
However, the .mlites seem to paint cuba, NK etc with the same “everything is fine here” brush, and I am sick of it.
Both sets of places can have their faults; but I am not the one denying obvious things that have been reported on time and time again.
I just don’t find the argument that an (in all likelihood American or British) almost certainly anti-communist organisation writing a report about their political enemy proves anything about their level of democracy or lack thereof very compelling. Especially if those same organisations rate a system in which ordinary people have almost zero influence as being somehow more democratic. Again, I’m not saying those countries are perfectly democratic. But in my opinion these reports are pretty much worthless. Agree to disagree I guess.
the reports of random people that go on holiday to north korea and are forbidden to take pictures of anything not in the potempkin village set up for them are worthless?
Alright, have a
niceday.I mean, even according to the Asher Fergusson indices, Cuba’s been making great advances on LGBTQ+ regards.