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I guess we’re going to find out how resilient the FOSS movement really is in the face of authoritarianism.
I have lots of pots of lukewarm water to sell to all these frogs
There are legitimate reasons to criticise systemd and I’m completely certain that they will never be posted in this community. I swear if I have to read some stupid comment about the unix philosphy from someone who has no idea what systemd is, which parts are optional or what init looked like before this stupid twenty year long debate…
It’s not about “the unix philosophy”.
It’s about how one project is trying to do more, and more, and more, and more, and trying to entrench itself as deeply as possible so you can’t just use something else if you don’t like it.
(Oh, and this new political stuff? Now there’s a concrete reason to use something else.)
The problem with systemd isn’t technical, it’s political, IMO. Oh I mean sure there’s plenty of technical reasons to hate it too (binary logs anyone?), but that’s not the main problem.
systemd would actually be pretty nice, if it stuck to just being a service manager. Unfortunately, yeah.
Oh, and everyone ALWAYS goes “oh but the only other option is a hodgepodge of scripts! you don’t want a hodgepodge of scripts! bow down and accept systemd”. Ever seen, like, any of the other init systems that are out there? We’re running OpenRC right now and it’s pretty fantastic. (Granted, sysv scripts are still the lowest common denominator, but there are other options. OpenRC’s got declarative service files too, and they’re actually way nicer than systemd’s service files when you need to break out of the declarative format and do a little script stuff. systemd made us stuff everything into one line.)
And before you dismiss me as Just Some Oldhead™, we actually moved to Linux (from Mac) well AFTER systemd was already entrenched. So this isn’t a “you hate change” thing.
– Frost
The “political stuff” about the birthdate field is completely overblown, as per usual with systemd. Binary logs aren’t that big a deal either. Like Torvalds said, those are details you can disagree with but it doesn’t mean you should dismiss the entire project because of it. Your comment is probably the first one I’ve read in this community that doesn’t boil down to: “I read somewhere that systemd doesn’t follow unix philosophy, yuck!”. That was kind of my entire point.
I wouldn’t even complain about it, if people here just stuck to shitposting instead of this thinly wrapped “I like/dislike X, please fight about it in the comments :)” bait.
Why though, I sure love having a load of script files in a folder doing the boot things.
I can easily add another.
Why system not boot, help
/s
Goddamn people are so reactionary
these memes all come from the same person
To be fair this one person is responsible for about 30% of the content on Lemmy. 🤣
I feel like this is one of those times where I tell my engineer to create a procedure for some random dumb thing management wants to implement so that we do it ahead of time before they come in and tell us how to do it
systemdeez nuts
I don’t hate systemd, but age ID verification? Risks to my privacy grossly outweigh any benefit.
Absolutely. That’s not what happened though. It’s a birthdate field with no verification. The point is to show how stupid the laws are.
Don’t hate systemd for age verification
Hate systemd for its monolithic, anti-Unix design pattern
Ok. Here’s the thing. I don’t know how linux works. I don’t know what systemd is. All I know is that all around the world we got clowns who know less about linux than I do trying to dictate the entire worldwide internet to cater to their specific geographical location, regardless of where the user is.
Then I hear systemd is openly trying to bow at the knee before these laws are even in effect.
And yes, the current system is you as a user inputting your birthday with zero verification.
But the gov of california has already said that before these laws go into effect they’ll be looking for stricter laws with checks in place. These systems are not in place now. Nor do they even know what they will turn out to be.
When asked about this, the gov said “We’re working on it.”
Then systemd comes along, ready to bend all of linux to their whims. So I put two and two together and decided this whole thing is pissing me off.
Systemd isn’t monolithic, it’s a pluggable framework with a shit load of components
ok so tell me why I’m waiting for networking to come up before I’m allowed to interact with my computer
Also, its monolithic as heck, its a giant squid into my networking, time management, access control…
Ontop of that… binary logs ew.
ok so tell me why I’m waiting for networking to come up before I’m allowed to interact with my computer
Because your distro sets up stuff weirdly? At least I never noticed networkd to be a dependency of multi-user.target, could be wrong though.
Also, its monolithic as heck, its a giant squid into my networking, time management, access control…
That’s all optional though, many distros just use it because it’s easier than the alternatives.
Ontop of that… binary logs ew.
Yeah, that’s indeed stupid. No clue why they did that.
Pervasive, yes. Deeply embedded in the distros that uses it, absolutely. And I get why people don’t like binary logs, although that isn’t exactly relevant to monolithic vs pluggable.
You seem to think that I’m arguing against your opinion that systemd is bad. I’m not. I’m arguing against the false statement that it is monolithic. It isn’t. It’s modular, like the linux kernel. If you wanted to remove every component except the init system, you could. Big pain in the ass to do that, but you could.
It replicates a lot of unix tooling poorly, bound to the Systemd framework which runs only on Linux. So, still a monolith.
That’s … not what monolithic means, in software architecture
It’s not age verification though. It is exactly what linux should do under the hood to handle this. Just a field.
The issue is that Linux shouldn’t be making any attempts to handle this at all.
If the various governments are going to try and require this, they can make and maintain their own forks and accept all the responsibility and risk that entails. Or the businesses beholden to the laws can. We have no obligation to make this easier on them, and every reason to make it harder.
If various Linux (and Linux software/component) maintainers would hold the line, we’d be fine.
The godawful mess of what would come from all of these different groups scrambling to implement their own solutions would be the fucking point. The most effective way to manage upwards at people who don’t understand or want to listen is to make them feel pain for their shitty decisions.
hey my birthday’s 1/1/1970 too
It’s just a birthday field in a JSON file, you don’t even have to fill it up
Bruh
Back in the 1980s the idea of being gay was NOT something that was openly accepted in America. You could be attacked, or worse, if the right crowd decided you needed to pay for your lifestyle.
Around this same time, Reagan had completely changed how prisons were funded. Before, it mostly came out of the pockets of the government. And after Reagan, we got what we have now. Prisons for profit.
Which meant conditions went way down, almost overnight, and prison populations started to boom. Because before, prisoners were a burden on tax dollars. If you arrested someone for jaywalking, you now had to convince a judge why a jaywalker belonged in prison.
But now, with megacorporations footing the bill, the expansions of the prison systems could explode. If you paid for prisons to be built and you made profit on each prisoner, you wanted them full.
Which meant…THE WAR ON DRUGS!
So, now you have massive populations of prisoners, all being held for crimes that shouldn’t carry a long sentence, and in many cases, never even happened.
What this meant is, these prisons became almost a community among the prisoners. And as such, you inevitably had gay prisoners.
So to signal to the other prisoners that you were gay, and wanted to get fucked in the ass, you’d wear your pants a little loose, and a little low. The look became known as “sagging”. And for about 10 years, nobody outside of prisons knew about it.
Then the 90s came, and these prisoners started getting released. And they continued sagging outside of prison, even though it no longer carried the same weight. It just became a fashion sense among urban communities without a trace of its former meaning.
So when I see this picture…it’s like…TOO on the nose. Thats not pants sagging, that’s pants dropping. The ironic thing is, if you told him that look signaled him as the bitch of the group, he’d probably be very angry. Especially since in the 90s being gay STILL wasn’t socially acceptable.
Naw, you bought into an urban myth. Why would prisoners put up with such an inconvenience just to signal homosexuality? Especially when you already had signals used outside of prison like having an earring in the right ear, that system of handkerchiefs they used in the '70s, and so forth. It would be like signaling your sexual orientation by walking around with your shoelaces untied.
Children in poor families often inherit clothing from siblings when they grow out of them. That pair of pants was too small on your brother, but it’s still too big on you. What was originally an inconvenience becomes fashionable because everybody in your neighborhood was doing it. This is so common that it’s caught on and now people are doing it on purpose.
Something similar happened with soul food. Enslaved people were given food that used to be thrown away. They found a way to make it taste good, and it became a cultural marker.
Do you have a source on sagging pants as a gay signal?
Cause from what I read, it was simply prisons offering only one size of pants and not allowing belts.In this case they just wanna show off their expensive brand underwear, though I’m not sure how anyone can walk like that
By showing everything BUT the waistband? The one part that actually displays the branding.
Fair enough, idk why they don’t show it here, but it’s definitely a thing in the hood
It’s fascinating to me how social norms can be so radically warped from one society to another. From my “normal” of not wanting others to see what’s under my pants, to this, to having a huge disk pierced into your bottom lip like those African tribes… There’s just so much diversity among us. It’s pretty cool. And sometimes weird. 😆
You don’t wear ankle pants?
I wear them over my regular pants.
Baller.
I do, I do, it’s just… My pants to down to my ankles rather than my ankles going up to my “waist”. 😆
its attestation, not verification, and they are just putting things in place to comply with the law bc you have to. being open source does not exempt you from following the law.
also, since every proprietary platform won’t even bat an eye over this everything will soon require it to function (obviously assuming the laws pass). this means linux won’t work properly with any web-based things. this is the same issue you get whenever Wayland tries to go against what every other platform does and just breaks a bunch of apps.
